In this episode of the Akiona Law podcast, Ululani “Lani” Akiona speaks with Mark Martinez, a Marine Corps veteran and founder of Red-3 CPA and Forensic Accounting. Mark uses his sharp eye for financial discrepancies to help individuals and legal teams find “the truth behind the numbers.” Tune in as we break down exactly what a forensic accountant does, how they uncover assets people are trying to hide, and what you should do if you suspect financial dishonesty in your own case.
Episode Transcript
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Okay, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1…
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Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Akiona Law Podcast, wherein we talk about anything and everything that intersects in the world of family law and divorce.
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And today, I have with me, I’m thrilled to welcome Mark Martinez.
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Mark is a Marine Corps veteran and the founder of Red 3 CPA and Forensic Accounting.
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Mark is armed with a sharp eye for a financial discrepancies, and he has a background in finances, economics, and accounting.
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Mark specializes in giving businesses, individuals, and legal professionals the tools they need to prepare for the future.
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Mark is a certified public accountant in Washington.
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He’s a certified forensic accountant,
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And he’s a registered forensic investigator with the American Board of Forensic Accounting.
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Welcome to the Akiana Law Podcast, Mark!
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Thank you. I’m glad to be here. I appreciate the invite and the opportunity to have this good conversation.
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Yeah, and I’m excited to have Mark here, because I was at a continuing legal education lunch thing where Mark gave a presentation.
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And it was about forensic accounting. And it’s something that comes up a lot, and that’s why I’m excited to have you on here, Mark, because what it is, is that people always have this concerned
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with, I think my spouse is hiding money.
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what do I do? So, let’s just get into it. Mark, what is a forensic accountant?
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Yeah, so forensic is just kind of a fancy word for suitable in court, right? So I, as a CPA and a forensic accountant, dig into the financials, specifically the financials, right? And see where the money went
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Where… if it’s being hidden somewhere, if there’s… if there’s unreported revenue in a company, that sort of thing. So I dig in and find the details that, essentially, people are trying to hide, and then would prepare a report that would be suitable
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for court, and I’m able to testify, I’m an expert witness and really kind of just supporting what
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The client is the client side. But specifically, like
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I’m finding what the truth is, right? Finding the truth behind the numbers is really what I try and do.
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I knew the truth behind the numbers, I love that.
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Yeah, you know, you let the numbers tell the story as a good line, a standard line in accounting, right? Because you have… you have hopes and dreams and plans and all those things that you want to do, either with your business or with your savings, you know, you’re trying to
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plan for your kids college fund
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But when it comes down to it, it’s like your actions speak louder than your words.
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the financials and the numbers speak louder than your words as well, sometimes
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You know, Mark, you have a… you have a really interesting background, because you… you’re… you’re a Marine Corps veteran.
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Yep.
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So, how did you get into the world of forensic accounting?
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Good question. So yeah, no, I spent I had two combat deployments in Iraq. I was a M1A1 tanker right there. There’s my tank. And I often times had
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Hmm.
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my guys, who we were in 29 Palms in the middle of the desert, there’s not a whole lot to do. So after a year, I had two guys who had $10,000 in a checking account. I’m like, guys, you gotta do something with that, right? Put it in a 401k, open up a Roth
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Put it in a money market, a high-yield money market account. And they’re like, I don’t even know what that is. I’m like, okay
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Yeah.
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So try and work with the guys to show them, you know, what a Vanguard account is and that sort of thing. All the time, like, I was learning myself, because at the time, I was enlisted, I didn’t have a degree in accounting
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Hmm.
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And then when I got out of the Marines
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I looked around and people I knew, people in my family who
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Wow.
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Otherwise did well for themselves. And I had an uncle who was the treasurer for mobile oil overseas. And he did pretty well for himself and I just thought I’ll just go do what that is what he does
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And he did finance, right? So his degree was in finance. So I started at Bellevue College. It was Bellevue Community College back then, and then transferred to Seattle U to got my degree in accounting, worked for a big four KPMG
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I did some small public, some small private companies, small CPAs, one, two member CPAs. And I’ll be honest with you, I learned a lot
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Yeah.
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doing small business finances. And it was, you know, it’s, you know, it’s it’s Mike’s Mike’s tools and trucks.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Right? And the difference of $500 means that he’s not getting a paycheck that week, right? Because it’s his business. And it’s these people, it’s like these people’s baby, and you know, they really close to it, and so, you know, you’ll learn a lot of good, bedside manner
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And you go to go to a couple of times I had to tell a client, okay, you’ve got $10,000 worth of checks to write, and you’ve got $8,000 in the bank. So
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Mail these ones now, and then when you make some deposits, mail these ones. They’re due in 15 days, so you have time
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And just helping people manage their business like that to the point where
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Okay, I’ve had… I had 3 businesses that grew to the point where they, instead of hiring me as a consultant
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They hired a full-time bookkeeper, right? So helping people grow their business like that. And that was honestly, that was, that was pretty amazing.
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Yeah, that’s exciting.
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Yeah. And then and then most recently, I was a corporate controller for, you know 100 million dollar companies and had a lawyer friend who said, Hey, I need Cpa work. There’s not enough CPAs who are supporting
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family law and law in general. And if you want some work, it’s, you know, I can I have work for you. You know, renovated this room, painted the walls and got some decorations and got a couple of additional certifications. I’ve been a CPA for
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So got some additional certifications, and now, yeah, so it’s, it’s been a good journey from the beginning to where I am now, being a Marine, telling people having money in a checking account is not. You’re not letting your money work for you
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To now trying to find all the money in all of the checking accounts. So
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That’s neat, and I must say that I love the paint color that you picked. It looks like a gray-blue.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it’s right. I wanted to make it lively and everything, so I don’t want to, but not like not like a plain white, you know, office. So yeah.
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But you did a good job.
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Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.
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Uh, so when…
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Sure.
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So, we’re talking about now… now you’re looking at people’s checking accounts to see, you know, where’s the money going? So that brings me to my next question… my next question. When should someone hire a forensic accountant?
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Yeah, so, really the question comes down to, you know, you’re separating, or you think that,
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sibling A, who is mom’s trustee is spending mom’s money inappropriately. You’re a business owner, and you’re your senior person or the your other partner is
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is not… you think they’re not telling the truth. Well, that’s where someone like me comes in place, right? So, I… I review financial statements, I review bank statements, and it’s really to come down to, like, really, like I said, you let the numbers tell the story
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Right? Where did the money go? If you’re getting a divorce, you have to worry about you have to do things your financial declaration and how do you split money and how much income are you really making
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That sort of thing. And so it comes down to you and your ex. It’s about soon to be ex-spouse. How much are you really making? So it comes down to
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finding what the
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truth that can be presented in court really is.
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Yeah, because I like what you said, in a way, because numbers don’t lie.
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Right. Yeah, if someone is claiming that they only make $60,000, but they drive a Mercedes and live in Bellevue, I mean, that could happen, but
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Probably not, right? So you do a lifestyle analysis and say, well, where is all their money coming from, and how are they supporting this really nice neighborhood with, you know, high tax rates and a super nice car, and that sort of thing. So you… you do the analysis and say, well
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They said this, but the evidence shows this other thing.
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Well, Mark, that’s… what’s a lifestyle analysis?
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Yeah, so a lifestyle analysis is you go in and start with the spending, right? Well, what are the outputs?
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The income is separate. Okay, so you have a mortgage, you’re sending your kid to a private school. You have a really nice car, and you go on $20,000 vacations.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So, those are uses of funds that you need to support. And if the uses of funds are higher than what’s being reported as income. You have a disparity there. And so if someone’s saying, like I said, you only make $60,000, but you’ve got $100,000 worth of expenses a year
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Including savings and all of these other things, you got to go and find where the other part of the money is coming from.
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So a good example would be you’re a business owner and
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Like I said, you’re going on $20,000 trips, but you represent that as a business expense. So the business is technically paying for it, but it is money available for the household.
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that would otherwise be household income. And a lot of people try and push their, you know, trips to Vegas, two week trip to Vegas or to Hawaii, or whatever, and they they spend one day in a seminar
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Yeah.
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And try to expense the whole thing. IRS doesn’t allow you to do that. If you’re gonna go for two weeks
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Yeah.
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And, go through one seminar, you only get to claim one day. Right? So the $20,000 becomes 1,000 really quickly. And that that difference
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That is
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What would be attributable to household income
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Mm, okay.
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for both parties, right? So
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Okay.
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So…
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It gets… it gets tricky. There’s so much there’s it’s easy to it’s
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the way a person can hide income
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Okay.
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is only limited by the imagination
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Ah, I see.
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Right? So you really have to go and look and see what the details are.
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So, just in terms of… so that lifestyle analysis then helps… is part of the part and parcel of the forensic accounting to determine
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what the income is available and where is it going.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Right. If you have two people, again, my wife has been a stay-at-home mom ever since we got married, right? And say that’s the situation of another situation of his couple getting divorced and they are going to Hawaii, you know, two times a year, and they both drive really nice cars
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And then all of a sudden things don’t work out and they got to split up and one person, the husband is saying, Hey, I only make you know I only make 100 grand a year. But they had $200,000 worth of expenses, right? So
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Yeah.
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And that goes to the fact, like, how much child support is there going to be, and how much spousal support, if any, there’s going to be based off of the facts and circumstances for that case. So you’d certainly… the difference between $100 and $200,000 is significant when you start talking about things like
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Child support and spousal support.
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Yeah, I had a case where my client was a business owner,
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Uh, the wife was a stay-at-home mom, you know, she maybe worked
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part-time jobs here and there, and so the… her attorney was like, your client makes a lot of money, he’s making a lot of money, he can pay this much.
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But when it came to… because, you know, they’re… they do this, and they do this, but when it came down to it, what happened was my client was not paying his business taxes.
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So… so now there’s… yeah.
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Yeah, I
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Yeah.
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So there’s just huge tax debt, and it’s like, no, he doesn’t have…
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Instead of paying his business taxes, he was diverting the monies
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To the family, so they could go on these vacations.
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Right. Well, so then that is a separate issue when somebody isn’t paying their taxes and it’s a business, specifically if it’s a family business.
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Yeah.
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the IRS kind of doesn’t really care, they just want their money, right? So, that is when those sort of things… excuse me, can be
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how should I say this right nicely, tactics in your case, because if it turns out that the person isn’t paying taxes.
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Do you like I have had that and I have counted a client, hey, I know what you want. This is what the situation is. If you bring these things forward, you, my client.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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will be liable for these taxes. So how do you want to handle that? Do you want to say, hey.
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We have found this is the situation and there is, I’ll make up a number, $60,000 in back taxes over the next three years
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Do you want to bring that into evidence and part of the mediation and potentially into court?
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Where now it is, you know, you’re testifying under oath that you know that you did this, or do you want to settle outside? And as the Cpa, I got to tell you
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You need to pay your taxes appropriately
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Correct.
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Right? But and I don’t have client that’s a good specific point. I don’t have client privileges. I’m not a lawyer. Cpas don’t have privilege like that. So that’s why typically
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I’m always engaged
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to work directly for the lawyer, and so my work becomes lawyer work product, which is privilege.
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Yeah.
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So yeah, that’s kind of an aside. Well, actually an important aside, but
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The issue is if there’s issues like that, they come to light very, very quickly. I mean, the details in a tax return
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I’m actually surprised. It was funny. I’m in a tax group where we meet once a month
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I’m surprised how many bookkeepers
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Just let you… let the client do whatever, and don’t ask questions, and just, like, of course, all of these Venmo payments are business expenses when it turns out they’re all childcare or food and stuff like that, which
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It’s generally not a business expense, so
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That is true! You cannot run child care expenses through the business. I’ve seen it happen before.
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Right.
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Yeah, yep, I had a client whose spouse was working less that she was I don’t know why she was working less, but she was working less and she wanted to adjust and the ex-husband was working more and she wanted to adjust
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Yeah.
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Child care payments. I see your tax return and there’s child care in her business that’s decreasing her business income. And she even threw, she sold her car and claimed a business loss
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Huh?
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on this car that was gifted to her, and I’m like, these, like, those are not business expenses, and so I… I
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For someone like me who really wants to like
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Uh-huh.
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like, be in integrity, like, be integrity, right? So, it’s right because it’s right, and it’s not right because it’s not right.
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Okay.
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And to see all of these people in my profession that, like, okay, I’m a CPA, not a bookkeeper. That’s a distinction. But to see the bookkeeper is like let run stuff through like that, and let… and then it ends up on a tax return
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It’s just a little frustrating for me.
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Hmm. Okay. Got it. Makes sense.
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Yeah, just a personal, just a personal thing because you really
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You know, when you’re going to testify in court
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Uh-huh, right.
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It is.
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to this issue like your word and your reputation is on on the line. One of the reasons I’m no longer
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Okay.
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a corporate controller is I had a… I told my boss, I’m like, hey, if we do… if we run the website like this, we’re gonna run into these three issues, and we’ll potentially have to file income tax in every state
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we sell to and he was like, Mark, who’s going to know
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I’m like, that is the wrong answer. You have to do things the right way.
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So that brings me full circle because when
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your soon-to-be ex-spouse, or your, you know, your mom’s trustee is using money for their own benefit that is not their money, or they’re hiding money in a divorce
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That’s where guys like me come in, people like me come in to find those issues. I’m like, yeah, you renovated your house and you put all of the $150,000 as a business expense
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Yeah.
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And that’s why you’re showing $60,000 worth of income because you had $150,000 expenses that were personal expenses to renovate your house that you threw through your business. So
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Wow. That you ran it through the business, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, it’s
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Yeah, it’s amazing the it’s only limited by somebody’s imagination. Yeah
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Right.
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Yeah, the creativity. Well, and that, you know, and so that’s why you need to have integrity, because that leads me to my next question, and you mentioned it, like, you’re gonna have to testify in court, so what makes a good expert witness?
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Okay.
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Yeah, so really from the accounting side, okay, funny, funny little antidote. There’s this t-shirt that I got when I was a brand new CPA at the
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at the public firm
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And it was it’s honestly, it’s silly. It said accounting. A person who fixes a problem you didn’t know you had in a way you don’t understand
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Right?
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Yeah.
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So accounting is complicated, and unless you kind of understand the very basics, it’s super easy to get lost. So a good expert witness
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Okay.
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is kind of an educator and can turn something complex like double entry bookkeeping into
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Yeah,
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which sounds weird. Why would you enter something twice? But that’s the standard of bookkeeping, right?
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Why?
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Okay.
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Well, because, okay, here’s a very, very easy example.
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Okay.
00:20:25.000 –> 00:20:39.000
You start a business, right? You put $50,000 in cash into your business. Okay, so now you have a bank account with $50,000, but you’re the owner and you own a $50,000 business.
00:20:39.000 –> 00:20:40.000
Oh, okay.
00:20:40.000 –> 00:20:44.000
So there’s double entry right there. You have cash and you have equity.
00:20:44.000 –> 00:20:47.000
Okay.
00:20:47.000 –> 00:20:48.000
Okay.
00:20:48.000 –> 00:21:05.000
Right? Your equity is $50,000 in the business, but you have cash. Now you’re gonna go, and you’re gonna buy a truck. You’re gonna spend $10,000 and buy a used truck for say you’re landscaping, I don’t know, say whatever your business, you’re gonna buy a truck
00:21:05.000 –> 00:21:06.000
Okay. Great.
00:21:06.000 –> 00:21:08.000
So now you have $40,000 and a $10,000 truck, okay? $40,000 and $10,000 truck.
00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:10.000
You still have $50,000 in equity.
00:21:10.000 –> 00:21:11.000
Yeah. Right.
00:21:11.000 –> 00:21:13.000
Right? So
00:21:13.000 –> 00:21:31.000
the further on down the trail you go from that it it it gets unless you know unless you know that how that works, it gets really messy. And you know, especially when you’re talking about, you know mom, mom gave me the $50,000 and brother
00:21:31.000 –> 00:21:52.000
you know, you’re just wasting all of mom’s money. It’s like, no, well, I have this truck, and now I have some cash, I’m gonna go buy some inventory, and go buy $20,000 of inventory, and, you know, now you… you have a $10,000 truck, $20,000 of inventory
00:21:52.000 –> 00:21:53.000
Okay.
00:21:53.000 –> 00:21:59.000
and $20,000 in cash, and like, you’re just wasting all mom’s money. Well, then you sell that, right? And it’s… it gets complicated very quickly, and so being able to
00:21:59.000 –> 00:22:05.000
make that understandable in court to
00:22:05.000 –> 00:22:06.000
generally the layperson, right?
00:22:06.000 –> 00:22:08.000
Right.
00:22:08.000 –> 00:22:13.000
It is a big part of being a good expert witness
00:22:13.000 –> 00:22:15.000
Okay.
00:22:15.000 –> 00:22:17.000
Does that… does that help? Is that right? Does that sound good?
00:22:17.000 –> 00:22:24.000
That’s… no, that… that does sound good. It just kind of, uh… because what it is, I mean, you… you want to be able
00:22:24.000 –> 00:22:37.000
to have your expert witness explain things so the judge understands.
00:22:37.000 –> 00:22:38.000
Yeah, I know.
00:22:38.000 –> 00:22:46.000
Right. Yeah, the judge, that’s a good point. I haven’t had too many cases that have gone to a jury. I don’t think too many divorce cases do. But yeah, and you know it’s like, you know, it’s like people specialize, right?
00:22:46.000 –> 00:22:47.000
Yeah.
00:22:47.000 –> 00:22:57.000
You’re a… you’re a family attorney versus a tax attorney versus a criminal defense attorney versus a prosecutor. Well
00:22:57.000 –> 00:23:03.000
I am not going to presume that I know the law as much as an attorney does
00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:13.000
And accounting is very similar to the law, right? You have tax accountants, you have bookkeepers, you have
00:23:13.000 –> 00:23:14.000
Yeah.
00:23:14.000 –> 00:23:27.000
auditors, you have internal audit, you have financial accounting, and then forensics. So you really need to be able to explain what how things work in accounting as an expert witness. So being a good
00:23:27.000 –> 00:23:30.000
kind of a… having a teacher mindset is super important.
00:23:30.000 –> 00:23:32.000
Yeah.
00:23:32.000 –> 00:23:36.000
And the other big one is being
00:23:36.000 –> 00:23:38.000
being a puzzle solver
00:23:38.000 –> 00:23:40.000
Right? So
00:23:40.000 –> 00:23:48.000
Again, like I said, it’s the other person’s, the other person’s imagination
00:23:48.000 –> 00:23:52.000
is what you’re up against. And if
00:23:52.000 –> 00:24:00.000
You have an inkling… inkling that something is going wrong. You gotta go in and dig and find where it’s going.
00:24:00.000 –> 00:24:05.000
I’ve had situations, oh, I have a software that can take your bank statement and just turn it into Excel file, right? It’s pretty cool.
00:24:05.000 –> 00:24:07.000
Okay. Wow.
00:24:07.000 –> 00:24:15.000
And so I can see I can see that you’ve made transfers to this, these three bank bank accounts.
00:24:15.000 –> 00:24:20.000
Yeah. Okay.
00:24:20.000 –> 00:24:21.000
Okay.
00:24:21.000 –> 00:24:24.000
Right? So, one is your personal savings, one is your personal checking, and one is some other bank account that
00:24:24.000 –> 00:24:25.000
Oh,
00:24:25.000 –> 00:24:38.000
I don’t have access to. So if that’s the one that you know this big that relatively you know relatively small dollar amounts of money are going into say like $1,200 a month
00:24:38.000 –> 00:24:39.000
But over five years
00:24:39.000 –> 00:24:40.000
Wow.
00:24:40.000 –> 00:24:45.000
And now that’s somebody could potentially hiding money.
00:24:45.000 –> 00:25:01.000
Right? So my software can help me find those things, and it’s now it’s the point where, okay, I need to pull on this string here, and pull a little bit more, and well, it turns out it’s a, you know, I don’t know, a retirement account. Okay, that’s probably fine
00:25:01.000 –> 00:25:04.000
Okay.
00:25:04.000 –> 00:25:06.000
Yes.
00:25:06.000 –> 00:25:07.000
Uh-huh.
00:25:07.000 –> 00:25:14.000
But from the retirement account, they’re taking draws on it and they have some side hustle going on that spouse doesn’t know about.
00:25:14.000 –> 00:25:23.000
Yeah.
00:25:23.000 –> 00:25:24.000
Yeah.
00:25:24.000 –> 00:25:27.000
Right? So now we have hidden money and hitting assets. And so it’s just again, pulling on the string to try and find the puzzle. You know you have
00:25:27.000 –> 00:25:32.000
We’ll just say $100,000 coming in to the household because W2 income says $100,000.
00:25:32.000 –> 00:25:36.000
Okay? Yeah.
00:25:36.000 –> 00:25:53.000
And you only have you only have 80,000 going out, and you’re accounting for all the things, you’re accounting for their savings for mortgage and all these things. Where’s your other 20 grand going? Well, that’s where I come in to try and find what’s going on with that money. Is there
00:25:53.000 –> 00:26:01.000
A sacred stash of money somewhere? Are you sending money to, you know mom who lives in Venezuela or you
00:26:01.000 –> 00:26:11.000
Or your girlfriend in the Philippines?
00:26:11.000 –> 00:26:12.000
Yeah.
00:26:12.000 –> 00:26:15.000
Either a girlfriend in the Philippines. Yes, exactly, yeah. Right. That’s where that $30,000 in travel to the Philippines once a year for a business expense
00:26:15.000 –> 00:26:18.000
Right, so exactly
00:26:18.000 –> 00:26:20.000
Oh,
00:26:20.000 –> 00:26:26.000
Yeah.
00:26:26.000 –> 00:26:27.000
Right.
00:26:27.000 –> 00:26:34.000
And I’ve had those, like, I’ve had to tell a couple of people, hey guy, hey, you know, I think you’re being scammed by a person in Guatemala or Costa Rica, or the Philippines, whatever it’s like, but no, no, no, she loves me. I’m like, she’s scamming you. I’m sorry, she
00:26:34.000 –> 00:26:35.000
Yeah.
00:26:35.000 –> 00:26:41.000
She’s scamming you. And you can tell a person that and they can believe you
00:26:41.000 –> 00:26:42.000
Or they cannot believe it.
00:26:42.000 –> 00:26:43.000
Yeah.
00:26:43.000 –> 00:26:49.000
you know, sometimes their heart, you know, their heart takes over and they want to believe something that may or may not be the case. So
00:26:49.000 –> 00:26:54.000
So, have you been… have you had cases, though, where you’ve had people say, hey, Mark,
00:26:54.000 –> 00:26:58.000
you know, I know this is hiding…
00:26:58.000 –> 00:27:05.000
this person is hiding money, and when you dig through the records, you’re like, no, because this is where the money… there’s no hiding money.
00:27:05.000 –> 00:27:22.000
Yeah, I actually have had that, and that’s the hard part is being is telling
00:27:22.000 –> 00:27:23.000
Okay.
00:27:23.000 –> 00:27:28.000
the client that, you know, what you think is true actually isn’t true. I’ve had a situation where mom passed away and put everything into a trust and said the trust pays out whenever the oldest or the youngest child reaches a certain age
00:27:28.000 –> 00:27:29.000
Okay.
00:27:29.000 –> 00:27:39.000
Right? And then and then mom passes away. And then one of the siblings pass away. And so now there’s you know it would get split
00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:40.000
Less ways, right? So it’s more money.
00:27:40.000 –> 00:27:42.000
Great.
00:27:42.000 –> 00:27:50.000
But everybody is under the understanding that mom had
00:27:50.000 –> 00:27:53.000
a life insurance policy on everybody
00:27:53.000 –> 00:27:57.000
And when sibling number X passed away.
00:27:57.000 –> 00:28:12.000
that insurance policy would have gone to the trust and so everybody would have gotten an additional you know $100,000 because of the amount of the insurance. And then when the at when the youngest person hits that age.
00:28:12.000 –> 00:28:16.000
And they decide to pay out. They’re like, where’s the rest of this money?
00:28:16.000 –> 00:28:17.000
Right?
00:28:17.000 –> 00:28:31.000
Right? Well, it turns out there was no insurance policy. And you know there was the 401k that mom and dad had. There was the value of the house that was sold and put into the 401k
00:28:31.000 –> 00:28:46.000
And mom wanted 10,000 to go into a certain trust account to take care of the dog that she loved dearly, which is a thing
00:28:46.000 –> 00:28:47.000
Yeah.
00:28:47.000 –> 00:28:48.000
And so now this is what’s left over, and it just… there wasn’t what you thought was there wasn’t there.
00:28:48.000 –> 00:28:49.000
Wow.
00:28:49.000 –> 00:28:53.000
I also had the other side happen where
00:28:53.000 –> 00:29:04.000
people didn’t know that sibling B didn’t know that mom had a $500,000 life insurance policy. Sibling A knew
00:29:04.000 –> 00:29:19.000
And they were fighting over it, right? Once sibling B learned through, you know, the breeze, the word through the breeze, that mom had this insurance policy, then it’s like, okay, well.
00:29:19.000 –> 00:29:26.000
Go hire a CPA to go figure out a forensic accountant to go figure out where that money went.
00:29:26.000 –> 00:29:28.000
So I’ve had both sides. Yeah
00:29:28.000 –> 00:29:40.000
Have you… have you had, uh, the situation where you had to help someone when they didn’t know what to do because their spouse controlled all the money, and so they don’t even know what’s in, like, the savings?
00:29:40.000 –> 00:29:44.000
Yeah, yeah, I’m actually working a case like that right now
00:29:44.000 –> 00:29:46.000
Okay.
00:29:46.000 –> 00:29:53.000
And I work with a I guess the best way to describe her is a kind of a life coach
00:29:53.000 –> 00:29:54.000
Okay.
00:29:54.000 –> 00:30:15.000
for a person going through divorce, and she’s very good on this side. She’s given me some tips, too. I always try and learn things, as much as I can as they come up
00:30:15.000 –> 00:30:16.000
Yeah.
00:30:16.000 –> 00:30:21.000
But yeah, so when it comes down to financial manipulation where spouse A is like, I’ve got financials, you don’t need to worry about it. You know, you can spend $3,000 a month on your card and and I’ll take care of the rest, right?
00:30:21.000 –> 00:30:39.000
And then it gets into, I have to say, I need to go through the lawyer and say, well, I need bank statements, credit card statements, and all of these things, and you’ve got to go subpoena those things so we can figure out the details.
00:30:39.000 –> 00:30:40.000
Yeah.
00:30:40.000 –> 00:30:45.000
So that’s the hard part. I can’t just go and say, give me this.
00:30:45.000 –> 00:30:52.000
I need to work through the lawyer to get that information. A lot of times it’s a lot of tricky information.
00:30:52.000 –> 00:30:58.000
Small business owners use QuickBooks, so I want to backup copy of their QuickBooks
00:30:58.000 –> 00:31:14.000
Because if I have a backup copy, I can just load it onto my side. It doesn’t affect their side at all. But I can see everything right? I can see where all the money goes in and out. I want to see bank statements. Bank statements are like, you know, cash is king
00:31:14.000 –> 00:31:15.000
Yeah, right?
00:31:15.000 –> 00:31:26.000
Right? So need those bank statements. And then investments. Investments is a big one, especially if you have people who are living off trusts
00:31:26.000 –> 00:31:27.000
Okay.
00:31:27.000 –> 00:31:38.000
You need… I need those trust statements to see what’s coming in and out, and in situations where they both have trust, but they’re really only living off of one
00:31:38.000 –> 00:31:49.000
Now they’re commingling trusts and 10 years later they want to get divorced and okay, well now since they were commingling trust, the growth of each of those trusts are
00:31:49.000 –> 00:31:51.000
shared assets now so
00:31:51.000 –> 00:31:58.000
And… and then I assume you need the standard, too, right? Like pay stubs, W-2s, tax returns, schedules…
00:31:58.000 –> 00:32:09.000
Yeah, tax returns are good, but they’re, you know, they’re good for things like finding out
00:32:09.000 –> 00:32:16.000
Okay. Yeah.
00:32:16.000 –> 00:32:17.000
Yeah.
00:32:17.000 –> 00:32:24.000
where people are hiding stuff. Like I mentioned before, you had the client who’s was expensing childcare through their business, right? So I want the tax returns to see that I want their, like I said, their QuickBooks
00:32:24.000 –> 00:32:44.000
And all of that, any business detail, investment investments, I want to see their investment schedules, their statements. If they have, if we’re talking about
00:32:44.000 –> 00:32:45.000
Okay.
00:32:45.000 –> 00:32:54.000
Physical assets. We need to list all that stuff out. The the truck, the car, the timeshare, the, you know, if they own. There was a there’s a when I went was going through school, there’s this problem in my tax class that got me always got me hung up
00:32:54.000 –> 00:32:56.000
And it had to do with a horse
00:32:56.000 –> 00:32:57.000
Okay.
00:32:57.000 –> 00:33:08.000
Right? So, you… you are given part ownership of this horse, and then the horse becomes this, prize-winning horse, and is now worth, like, a million dollars.
00:33:08.000 –> 00:33:18.000
But when you were given granted ownership of it, it was only worth $50,000. So now, how much do you get out of that, right? So I say that because
00:33:18.000 –> 00:33:35.000
One of the biggest fraud cases in the United States involved this controller for a city in Illinois, and she stole, like, $29 million from the city, and she had like 100 horses
00:33:35.000 –> 00:33:39.000
Yeah, so I bring up horses because
00:33:39.000 –> 00:33:52.000
There’s a significant amount of value in, well, specifically horses, but in livestock. So, you know, that
00:33:52.000 –> 00:33:53.000
Really?
00:33:53.000 –> 00:34:07.000
our alpaca farming is another thing where you get a tax break for alpacas and it’s a kind of a strange aside, but I mean, I’ve heard, I have not looked into this, but Bon Jovi gets this huge tax break because in his… he has a farm
00:34:07.000 –> 00:34:08.000
Okay.
00:34:08.000 –> 00:34:10.000
in New Jersey, and so he gets a big tax break because he has farm animals
00:34:10.000 –> 00:34:14.000
Alpacas? Oh, wow.
00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:21.000
Oh.
00:34:21.000 –> 00:34:22.000
Yeah.
00:34:22.000 –> 00:34:27.000
I don’t know if it’s specific yet he has alpacas, but he has a… he has a farm that he gets a big tax break for, and you wouldn’t think this, like, mega rock star is really working on tax breaks owning a farm.
00:34:27.000 –> 00:34:37.000
But those are things that need to be listed out because they are assets that are attributable to division of assets during a divorce or a separation.
00:34:37.000 –> 00:34:47.000
And, you know, you mentioned QuickBooks. Now, is there some… somewhere, like, where someone can, like, hide something in QuickBooks, or delete a transaction?
00:34:47.000 –> 00:34:48.000
And then…
00:34:48.000 –> 00:34:54.000
Yeah, so the cool thing about QuickBooks is it keeps track of everything.
00:34:54.000 –> 00:34:55.000
Okay.
00:34:55.000 –> 00:35:00.000
Somebody logs in and does something, it says Mark
00:35:00.000 –> 00:35:03.000
wrote a check and printed the check for $500.
00:35:03.000 –> 00:35:04.000
Yeah.
00:35:04.000 –> 00:35:10.000
Right? On whatever date. And if I go… go in
00:35:10.000 –> 00:35:17.000
Like, after the check is cashed and cleared the bank and reconciled and I change it from 500 to 5,000
00:35:17.000 –> 00:35:25.000
Right.
00:35:25.000 –> 00:35:26.000
Okay.
00:35:26.000 –> 00:35:27.000
Right? I could do that right and it’s going to say, Hey, this this transaction has already been reconciled. Are you sure you want to do this? I can just say yes
00:35:27.000 –> 00:35:33.000
Yeah.
00:35:33.000 –> 00:35:34.000
Right.
00:35:34.000 –> 00:35:50.000
Right? So what does that do? It increases my expenses and lowers my net income. And if I do that enough, it becomes a material amount, and that’s how you can turn… you can turn a company that should otherwise have, you know, $200,000 of income that would go to the family
00:35:50.000 –> 00:35:52.000
Okay.
00:35:52.000 –> 00:35:53.000
Yeah.
00:35:53.000 –> 00:36:10.000
Right? That would be family income. You can turn that into $100,000 by manipulating the transactions. And so quick books tracks any changes that are in there. So I can go in and pull a transaction report
00:36:10.000 –> 00:36:11.000
Okay.
00:36:11.000 –> 00:36:12.000
and a transaction change report, and see who made the change when they made the change, what it originally was, and what did they change it to? that, my friends, is what you call fraud.
00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:13.000
Cried.
00:36:13.000 –> 00:36:22.000
So, that’s… yeah, that is frog. So, like, for real fraud. So that’s when, yeah, you gotta go find that stuff. Yeah.
00:36:22.000 –> 00:36:43.000
So, you would tell an attorney, you know, when the attorney does their interrogatories and requests for production of documents, because obviously we have to request more than just a QuickBook file, right?
00:36:43.000 –> 00:36:44.000
Oh, bruh.
00:36:44.000 –> 00:36:46.000
Yeah, so the trick with QuickBooks is that like it’s the it’s everything in the business, right? And people hold that
00:36:46.000 –> 00:36:53.000
like, sacred, right? And if I give you this information, I’m, you know, giving you keys to the castle
00:36:53.000 –> 00:36:59.000
Yeah.
00:36:59.000 –> 00:37:00.000
Right?
00:37:00.000 –> 00:37:13.000
And so what they want to do is they want to, you know, print out and export to PDF a couple of reports. And I mean, I’m sure having a PDF gives you some information, but unless I tell you what I want printed out, you’re just going to give me kind of a few standard reports like a general ledger
00:37:13.000 –> 00:37:14.000
Right.
00:37:14.000 –> 00:37:22.000
and an income statement and a balance sheet. I’m not going to be be able to find stuff, just find
00:37:22.000 –> 00:37:27.000
changes in transactions, like I just explained with the $5,000 change
00:37:27.000 –> 00:37:28.000
Uh-huh.
00:37:28.000 –> 00:37:33.000
You’re just not gonna see that in a balance sheet or an income statement
00:37:33.000 –> 00:37:48.000
What you have to really go in and look at the transaction detail. So QuickBooks has a couple of features, really a backup copy is best because it’s just a copy as of a specific date
00:37:48.000 –> 00:37:49.000
Hmm. Okay.
00:37:49.000 –> 00:37:54.000
And the user, the end user, it doesn’t affect
00:37:54.000 –> 00:38:02.000
They’re working, right? They can still work and they can still do whatever they’re doing, reconcile accounts. There’s another thing called the accountant’s copy
00:38:02.000 –> 00:38:04.000
Ooh!
00:38:04.000 –> 00:38:08.000
But, yeah, it… accounts copy is good
00:38:08.000 –> 00:38:12.000
What it does is it freezes
00:38:12.000 –> 00:38:13.000
Okay.
00:38:13.000 –> 00:38:34.000
QuickBooks as of a certain date. So you can go ahead and do new things. You can write new checks and write new invoices and do new payroll, but you can’t change any history until your accountant does whatever they’re doing and then
00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:35.000
Okay.
00:38:35.000 –> 00:38:40.000
they upload the accountant’s copy back into the working copy and the bank rec is now done, and say you, you know certain things like
00:38:40.000 –> 00:38:46.000
You, the business owner, have a cell phone and you pay your cell phone, but you want the business to reimburse you
00:38:46.000 –> 00:38:47.000
Right.
00:38:47.000 –> 00:38:49.000
$100 a month for cell phone
00:38:49.000 –> 00:39:04.000
Right? But you’re not going to do that in cash, you’re going to do that in equity, right? So you’re not actually getting extra cash. So there’s an entry that needs to be made into QuickBooks that the bookkeeper will do, the accountant will do, in the accountant’s copy
00:39:04.000 –> 00:39:15.000
And when they upload it, now it loads any changes or any reconciliation differences. And reconciliation differences are pretty
00:39:15.000 –> 00:39:30.000
Important, right? Slip of the fingers, you know, the six and the nine are right in front of each other. So if somebody writes you a check for $169 and it was supposed and you billed them for $196, you have a difference there. Accountant can fix that
00:39:30.000 –> 00:39:31.000
Okay.
00:39:31.000 –> 00:39:47.000
Right? So, do you want to go after that little slip of the finger, or, you know, if… if it’s too many point this way of the decimal point, yeah, you’re gonna go get it, but if you’re talking about 9 bucks, I mean, right?
00:39:47.000 –> 00:39:48.000
Oh, wow. Okay.
00:39:48.000 –> 00:39:50.000
So the accountant’s copy really nobody’s going to give you that because it freezes history. You really want the backup. The backup
00:39:50.000 –> 00:39:52.000
You want a backup copy. Okay.
00:39:52.000 –> 00:39:56.000
Yeah, the backup copy is still everything
00:39:56.000 –> 00:40:04.000
And you got people like me can load it into our quick books. I create a new instance just for the new company
00:40:04.000 –> 00:40:07.000
Okay. Okay.
00:40:07.000 –> 00:40:09.000
And I would be able to see everything that’s going on.
00:40:09.000 –> 00:40:17.000
Okay, so then get you the backup copy,
00:40:17.000 –> 00:40:18.000
Yeah
00:40:18.000 –> 00:40:19.000
And so you just don’t have, like, just these PDF reports, which really don’t tell you much of anything.
00:40:19.000 –> 00:40:20.000
Well.
00:40:20.000 –> 00:40:21.000
I’m gonna just give you a snapshot of the…
00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:24.000
yet, they really just make you have to ask more questions, right?
00:40:24.000 –> 00:40:29.000
Oh, wow.
00:40:29.000 –> 00:40:30.000
Okay.
00:40:30.000 –> 00:40:33.000
So like you give me the general ledger as a PDF and that’s 300 pages of line and line and line and line and line
00:40:33.000 –> 00:40:35.000
Yeah.
00:40:35.000 –> 00:40:49.000
And number one, now I’m… now I have to charge you
00:40:49.000 –> 00:40:50.000
Yeah.
00:40:50.000 –> 00:40:54.000
to… and my hourly rate to go look through 300 pages worth of things. And I may not find anything, but I might find journal entry, you know, 37
00:40:54.000 –> 00:40:55.000
Wow.
00:40:55.000 –> 00:41:01.000
Journal entry number 37 that changes $70,000
00:41:01.000 –> 00:41:08.000
Okay.
00:41:08.000 –> 00:41:09.000
Yeah, what happened?
00:41:09.000 –> 00:41:12.000
that on December 31st. Well, what is $70,000 on December 31st right so it could be like
00:41:12.000 –> 00:41:19.000
when I was a controller, I was like, oh, hey, we’re just gonna move this $70,000 from this one account to this other account
00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:22.000
Right? It should have been in the other account to begin with. So it’s just a
00:41:22.000 –> 00:41:23.000
normal correction
00:41:23.000 –> 00:41:25.000
Okay.
00:41:25.000 –> 00:41:34.000
But it could be you’re taking payroll out of payroll and putting it into commissions because
00:41:34.000 –> 00:41:37.000
You know, you paid people cash under the table
00:41:37.000 –> 00:41:38.000
Oh.
00:41:38.000 –> 00:41:48.000
Right? So, you know, and that is something that you would want to see that should be plainly evidenced in QuickBooks as you’re going through and they have to answer for that sort of thing. So
00:41:48.000 –> 00:41:57.000
So, forensic accounting can determine… because I hear that a lot of time, right? My husband runs a construction company, he gets paid cash under the table. So,
00:41:57.000 –> 00:41:58.000
Yeah.
00:41:58.000 –> 00:42:01.000
A forensic accountant could look at what you look at the bank statements, or the…
00:42:01.000 –> 00:42:06.000
to determine the cash paid.
00:42:06.000 –> 00:42:07.000
Okay.
00:42:07.000 –> 00:42:15.000
Well, that’s tricky. Yeah, so that’s number one where the lifestyle analysis comes in, because if they’re getting a lot of cash, you’re not going to see that come into the bank however, most banks
00:42:15.000 –> 00:42:19.000
If you ask the bank, you get a transaction report, not a bank statement.
00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:22.000
Oh!
00:42:22.000 –> 00:42:25.000
And if you go to the bank, they can say anytime someone goes to the teller
00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:26.000
Yeah…
00:42:26.000 –> 00:42:31.000
There will be a transaction on their account. So, for instance.
00:42:31.000 –> 00:42:32.000
Okay.
00:42:32.000 –> 00:42:43.000
Very good example. For instance, run a construction company, or actually it doesn’t have to be construct any kind of business and you have $10,000 in your bank, your business bank account
00:42:43.000 –> 00:42:48.000
You have $10,000 in there. Customer paid you a $3,000 check made out to the business
00:42:48.000 –> 00:42:54.000
Yeah.
00:42:54.000 –> 00:42:55.000
Great.
00:42:55.000 –> 00:42:56.000
You can go in and just cast the check, right? You don’t have to deposit it, you can just cast the check, and now you have $3,000.
00:42:56.000 –> 00:43:00.000
Right.
00:43:00.000 –> 00:43:01.000
Right.
00:43:01.000 –> 00:43:03.000
Your bank statement is not going to see that at all because you didn’t deposit it.
00:43:03.000 –> 00:43:11.000
But the bank has a transaction report that says that on, I don’t know what’s today, June 11th
00:43:11.000 –> 00:43:17.000
at 223
00:43:17.000 –> 00:43:18.000
Wow.
00:43:18.000 –> 00:43:28.000
there was a transaction at a teller where you cashed a check, and the check was $3,000, and now you know… now I know that there’s $3,000 floating around. That’s essentially unaccounted for.
00:43:28.000 –> 00:43:29.000
holy smokes.
00:43:29.000 –> 00:43:43.000
So that’s… yeah, that’s… that’s actually a good way, again, limited by the person’s imagination. You can find it. You just have to pull on the strings and figure out where the puzzle pieces are.
00:43:43.000 –> 00:43:50.000
The… you know the bank transaction report? Does it… what about, like, a withdrawals that people make
00:43:50.000 –> 00:43:52.000
or deposits from the ATM.
00:43:52.000 –> 00:43:55.000
No? Yes.
00:43:55.000 –> 00:43:56.000
Okay.
00:43:56.000 –> 00:44:02.000
Yeah, that’ll show up, right? That’ll… if you do any deposits or withdrawals or write a check or anything like that, that’s going to be on your bank statement.
00:44:02.000 –> 00:44:03.000
Oh, okay.
00:44:03.000 –> 00:44:07.000
Caching a check
00:44:07.000 –> 00:44:16.000
The trick part is, not the tricky part, the caveat is if you have $1,000 in your account and you want to cash a $3,000 check
00:44:16.000 –> 00:44:17.000
Yeah.
00:44:17.000 –> 00:44:18.000
They’re gonna deposit the check first
00:44:18.000 –> 00:44:26.000
Oh, okay.
00:44:26.000 –> 00:44:33.000
Okay.
00:44:33.000 –> 00:44:34.000
Hey. Right.
00:44:34.000 –> 00:44:38.000
Right? Because the bank wants to make sure that you… that you have cash to cover that cover that check, right? So sometimes they won’t even let you cash the check. They’ll want to deposit it, and you know they put a hold on it for, like, 3 days or whatever before it clears, that sort of thing.
00:44:38.000 –> 00:44:41.000
Yeah.
00:44:41.000 –> 00:44:42.000
Yeah.
00:44:42.000 –> 00:44:45.000
But if you have cash in excess of the amount of the check, they’ll just cash the check for you and you’ll never you’ll just never see that on a bank statement.
00:44:45.000 –> 00:44:48.000
So interesting.
00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:49.000
Yeah.
00:44:49.000 –> 00:44:50.000
Right there.
00:44:50.000 –> 00:44:59.000
Well, it’s a way to hide money, and if you are trying to go find all the hidden money, that’s where guys like me come in place
00:44:59.000 –> 00:45:00.000
Yeah.
00:45:00.000 –> 00:45:02.000
Yeah, and that’s why they need to hire you, to get the… not only the bank statements, but the bank transaction reports.
00:45:02.000 –> 00:45:03.000
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:45:03.000 –> 00:45:09.000
Jeez. Well, you know, thank you so much, Mark, for coming on and being a guest today.
00:45:09.000 –> 00:45:16.000
Very, very illuminating, very helpful, and so if people want to work with you, how do they get ahold of you?
00:45:16.000 –> 00:45:35.000
Yeah, so I have a website, red3cpa.com, and it’s red three like with a hyphen between the red and the three. And my email is mark.martinez at red3cpa.com. I’m also have, like most everybody else, a good cell phone
00:45:35.000 –> 00:45:47.000
So my cell number is 425-492-0751. I currently am taking new clients right now and
00:45:47.000 –> 00:46:00.000
My niche here is to work with family lawyers, whether it’s a divorce or an estate or an elder case. I’ve done several elder fraud cases where, you know, trying to figure out where parents’ money goes.
00:46:00.000 –> 00:46:02.000
Yeah.
00:46:02.000 –> 00:46:06.000
And then I’m also, you know, I’m on LinkedIn as well.
00:46:06.000 –> 00:46:11.000
Okay, and we’ll be sure to have your… your… and then when you said your email address,
00:46:11.000 –> 00:46:14.000
that hyphen goes in, the email address as well?
00:46:14.000 –> 00:46:38.000
Yeah, yeah, my email is red-3, right? Red 3… so I was in the Marines, right? And so my call sign was red 3. So when I drove my tank here, that was my call sign, and I actually had to answer to
00:46:38.000 –> 00:46:39.000
Yeah.
00:46:39.000 –> 00:46:41.000
Washington Board of Accountancy, why my name isn’t like Mark or Martinez or or something like that isn’t in my firm name. And I’m like
00:46:41.000 –> 00:46:46.000
It was my call sign in the Marines and that was sufficient for them. And I, I don’t know, I just thought it’s cool. So
00:46:46.000 –> 00:46:51.000
Yeah, that is cool. I like that. I mean, it’s nice to have that, you know, that tie-in with…
00:46:51.000 –> 00:46:53.000
your service.
00:46:53.000 –> 00:46:56.000
Yeah, yeah, it’s a big, big part of my life. So, you know, it’s always nice.
00:46:56.000 –> 00:47:04.000
And, uh, before we sign off, and we’ll make sure to have folks will make sure to include Mark’s contact information as well,
00:47:04.000 –> 00:47:21.000
in our podcast description when this goes live, but Mark, before you sign off, what’s some fun fact about yourself that no one would know just from looking at you?
00:47:21.000 –> 00:47:28.000
Oh!
00:47:28.000 –> 00:47:29.000
Wow.
00:47:29.000 –> 00:47:35.000
Well, fun fact, I am highly involved in Scouts, Scouting America. I sit on the board of the Chief Seattle Council, BSA, and I’m the district executive for my territory. So my area that I’m
00:47:35.000 –> 00:47:36.000
Okay.
00:47:36.000 –> 00:47:39.000
100% volunteer, but my territory is essentially
00:47:39.000 –> 00:47:49.000
from, we’ll say, from Renton to Auburn
00:47:49.000 –> 00:47:50.000
Okay.
00:47:50.000 –> 00:48:01.000
And from I-5 to the top of the pass. So a huge area lot of troops, lot of packs, a lot of crews, and you know scouting America has is changed a lot
00:48:01.000 –> 00:48:02.000
Oh, okay, yeah.
00:48:02.000 –> 00:48:15.000
over the time, used to be Boy Scouts of America, and now it’s Scouting America pretty much every unit that I know about is has troops that accept units that accept both boys and girls
00:48:15.000 –> 00:48:28.000
And we have set up patrols that is a girl patrol and a patrol that is boy patrol. So it’s not they go and do things together, but on the on the small unit level, they’re… we keep them separate.
00:48:28.000 –> 00:48:29.000
Okay.
00:48:29.000 –> 00:48:45.000
But, you know, it’s building character for the next generation of Americans is really kind of the whole through the scout oath and Scout laws really the mission of Scouts and watching
00:48:45.000 –> 00:48:54.000
You know, watching some 12-year-old girl on a camping trip who just comes up to you and says, Mr. Martinez, I want to learn how to build a fire.
00:48:54.000 –> 00:48:59.000
And sitting down with the fire pit
00:48:59.000 –> 00:49:04.000
And watching her build a fire and start a fire with one match
00:49:04.000 –> 00:49:09.000
One match.
00:49:09.000 –> 00:49:10.000
Yeah.
00:49:10.000 –> 00:49:16.000
And then have her excitement is, like, it’s amazing. It’s just, I mean, really, right there in the heart. It’s a… it’s cool to watch people
00:49:16.000 –> 00:49:24.000
Specifically kids learn new things, then succeed at those things. So
00:49:24.000 –> 00:49:25.000
Yeah.
00:49:25.000 –> 00:49:27.000
You know, and that’s so important, like, I don’t know how to build a fire, but that’s so important for a young… a young girl’s confidence, too. Just anyone’s…
00:49:27.000 –> 00:49:28.000
confidence to do those types of things.
00:49:28.000 –> 00:49:31.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah
00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:47.000
And it’s tricky because
00:49:47.000 –> 00:49:48.000
Yeah. All right.
00:49:48.000 –> 00:49:57.000
When you’re like me and you’re 50, and you have this wealth of experience, at a certain point of time, I didn’t have the experience to learn to light a fire, and fire is dangerous, and your parents always yell at you, you’ll burn the house down, and all that sort of stuff. Don’t even let you play with matches, and now here we are, given
00:49:57.000 –> 00:50:05.000
Oh.
00:50:05.000 –> 00:50:06.000
Yeah.
00:50:06.000 –> 00:50:09.000
You know, 12-year-old kids, teaching them how to light a fire and how to properly use a pocket knife, and how to make a mac and cheese on a stove, right? A lot of self-sufficiency. So, really
00:50:09.000 –> 00:50:18.000
It’s really cool to see kids succeed at stuff like that. Bill, like you said, build their confidence and succeed at something cool like that.
00:50:18.000 –> 00:50:19.000
Absolutely.
00:50:19.000 –> 00:50:20.000
That’s amazing. You know, thank you so much for being of service to our community, Mark, and…
00:50:20.000 –> 00:50:23.000
Again, it was such a pleasure to have you on
00:50:23.000 –> 00:50:27.000
Today, um… I’m the Akiona Law Podcast.
00:50:27.000 –> 00:50:28.000
Yeah, thank you. It’s been my pleasure.
00:50:28.000 –> 00:50:39.000
And… and so, again, uh, if anyone wants to work with Mark, you can contact him at… his firm is called red-3CPA and Forensic Accounting.
00:50:39.000 –> 00:50:49.000
And so, for all of my guests out there, thank you again for joining us on another episode of the Akiona Law Podcast, wherein we talk about anything and everything,
00:50:49.000 –> 00:50:52.000
that intersects in the world of family law and divorce.
00:50:52.000 –> 00:50:55.000
Uh, I am Lonnie Achiona, until the next time, be well.